Calculating BB vs GD

[UU - Businix]

We're having a discussion in our clan about how to calculate the BB vs GD effect.

Do hou multiply or add the 2 percentages?

Example:
Ground defense=20%
Big bang=40%

Will your missile damage be
140%-20%=120%
Or
140%x80%=112%?

As you can see the difference can be quite big when using it with 3 flashes.

UU - Businix

 

[CRABNUTZ]

43% big bang or more on 4 perfect diegos, used with 3 flash, 5 missiles, will kill any player in the game.

 

[UU - Businix]

Not, when you are "just" a level 48 like I am...

 

[CRABNUTZ]

My apologies for not completely elaborating.

*with level 22 missiles*

 

[Segovia]

Ok, I think I get how it works now.
So, for the sake of simplicity let's imagine missile base damage is 10,000.

With perfect diegos you multiply that value by 4, therefore it becomes 40,000 dmg.

Now take into account BB bonus of 40%. This would mean multiplying 40,000 by 1.4

But let's say you flashbang the enemy finca twice,

therefore 40,000 * 1.8 = 72,000 dmg per missile,

72,000 * 5 missiles = 360,000 dmg.

Imagine enemy finca has 20% GD.

You calculate 20% of overall dmg inflicted and subtract it.

20% of 360,000 is 72,000. Therefore 360,000 - 72,000 = 288,000.

Businix in answer to your response, I think it is the former and not the latter

 

[Segovia]

My apologies for not completely elaborating.

*with level 22 missiles*

How much GD% do you have? Do you get triple flash no-deployed?

 

[LeeMuerto]

You add them together to get the multiplier.

Base Damage At Missle Level 20 = 10168 / Missle
Perfect Diego = 30% Trait + 20% Skill + 20% Skill (At blue stars/level 6, use 35% for purple/level 7.)
Four Perfect Diegos = 30 + 20 + 20 = 70% * 4 Diegos = 280% Boost
Damage Per Missle = 10168 * (1.00 Base + 2.80 Boost) = 38638 Damage / Missle

Now we have our damage per missile, we need to figure out how much damage the target finca can take.

Target finca health visible by scouting: 220000 + 22000 Cartel Bonus = 242000 health.

Without considering Big Bang and Ground Defense, this finca would require 242000/38638 = 6.26 Missles to be no deployed (therefore 7, since you must finish it off.)

Now we consider Big Bang effect which is “Buildings affected by a Flash Bang take % more damage.” With four Big Bang effects on your four Diego’s let’s say that you have 50% total Big Bang effect to make this calculation easier. This could be some combination like 11% + 11% + 13% + 15%.

With a single flash, our calculation becomes: 242000/(38638*1.5) = 4.17 Missiles.

If you use two Flash Bangs to double the Big Bang effect: 242000/(38638*2.0) = 3.13 Missiles.

Now comes the hard part. You don’t know how much Ground Defense your opponent has. You do know how many they have by scouting, and you know the domain of possible numbers by reading the in game numbers, but you can’t have the exact percentage a priori.

So let’s say your target has 2 Ground Defense skills showing when you scout. You make a guess that they are at 10%. Ground Defense provides that “Buildings near the sicario take X% less damage from abilities.”

We need to remove that much damage from each missile now, which back to our formula we can apply a factor to the damage deal per missle of 1.00 - Ground Defense %.

So your final formula is
242000 / ((38638*2.0)*(1.00-0.20)) = 3.91 Missiles.

If you can boost your Ground Defense, change that factor. Let's say you can get 32% GD:

242000 / ((38638*2.0)*(1.00-0.32)) = 4.61 Missiles.

Very often the difference between a successful and failed nodeploy is in one missile, and comes down to available energy. It is incredibly important that you have nothing touching your finca - that is just free energy and can give an attacker the extra missile they need to nodeploy.

Edit: Also, you can calculate for using 3 flashes, but since this factor applies after the base damage, generally you will have more damage done by using two flashes and an extra missile. That third flash costs 13 energy, and that means less missiles to launch. So all else being equal, using three flash bangs (which will not leave much energy for missiles) would be add another 50% to the damage factor:

242000 / ((38638*2.5)*(1.00-0.32)) = 3.68 Missiles.

 

[CRABNUTZ]

25% big bang is the over/under as to whether it's more viable to use 2 flashes or 3.

25 and under, use 2 flashes.

Over 25, use 3.

@Segovia I only get triple flash no deployed. No one at the top uses anything other than 3 flash, 5 missiles.

Keep in mind that this requires 65 energy. If you don't have 65 energy, you'll have to fire bomb 4-5 storage buildings, depending on how much energy you'll need to gain.

 

[Tom]

My formula is:
For example full Diego 50112 damage & 50% BB & 40% GD & 3xfreeze
1 missile 50112 x 2,5 = 125280
4missile = 501120

With GD
50112 x (1+0,5+0,5+0,5-0,4)=105235 damage
4 missile = 420940

If you reduce the 40% GD of the whole damage then you only have 300672 damage. With this damage is impossible to destroy a Finca with 340000+ Energie.

 

[LeeMuerto]

If you have 65 base energy the math is convenient because from 52 energy for 2 flashes and 5 missiles the next flash costs the same as the next missile (13 energy.)

In this case its a little over .33 Big Bang where you should be switching to 3 flashes.. But at your level I can’t imagine anyone who wouldn’t have at least .33. Down here I run with 2 and 5, because have 52 base energy, and its much more damage than my other option of 3 flash and 4 missile.

Here’s math at 65 energy:

It’s approx the same if increasing Diego’s to 7star with 300% boost..

 

[TajKyH]

My formula is:
For example full Diego 50112 damage & 50% BB & 40% GD & 3xfreeze
1 missile 50112 x 2,5 = 125280
4missile = 501120

With GD
50112 x (1+0,5+0,5+0,5-0,4)=105235 damage
4 missile = 420940

If you reduce the 40% GD of the whole damage then you only have 300672 damage. With this damage is impossible to destroy a Finca with 340000+ Energie.

i notice this post just today. calculating GD in this way is 'mathematicaly unetical' and i think it will be fair to anyone if GD is related to whole dmg caused by missiles.
cheers

 

[LeeMuerto]

i notice this post just today. calculating GD in this way is 'mathematicaly unetical' and i think it will be fair to anyone if GD is related to whole dmg caused by missiles.
cheers

It’s just his formula for personal use I guess, the actual calculation is as you describe and relates to whole damage caused by missiles, exactly as described by the game.

 

[Tom]

It’s just his formula for personal use I guess, the actual calculation is as you describe and relates to whole damage caused by missiles, exactly as described by the game.

Sorry, but I have still the opinion that the game didn’t reduce the whole damage.
I have 50% BB and full diegos and I destroy every High level finca including prison and 6xGD (perhaps GD isn’t max but I guess the average is higher then 40%) and I use only 4 missiles. Not 5!!!

 

[HerrRossi0201]

Sorry, but I have still the opinion that the game didn’t reduce the whole damage.
I have 50% BB and full diegos and I destroy every High level finca including prison and 6xGD (perhaps GD isn’t max but I guess the average is higher then 40%) and I use only 4 missiles. Not 5!!!

....and you are absolutely right. Ground defense only reduces the damage of the original missile not the bonus given by big bang. For you that means you can destroy every finca with 391k energy with less than 55% ground defense with 3 flashes and 4 missiles.

 

[LeeMuerto]

....and you are absolutely right. Ground defense only reduces the damage of the original missile not the bonus given by big bang. For you that means you can destroy every finca with 391k energy with less than 55% ground defense with 3 flashes and 4 missiles.

That’s sort of correct yes, the missile damage is reduced and then the Big Bang is applied. So yes, if you have 10k base missile damage, and it is reduced by ground defense, you could calculate it as:

10,000 damage * 0.6 = 6000 Damage [Considering a 40% ground defense]
+ 6000 damage * 1.5 [Three flashes at 50%]
= 15,000

You would deal 15,000 damage per missile using that example.

Ground Defense does not only apply to the original damage by the missile, it is not:

10,000 damage * 0.6 = 6000 Damage [Considering a 40% GD]
+ 10,000 * 1.5 [Three flashes at 50%]
= 21,000

I’m not sure if there is confusion about that? You can check the numbers in game by scouting first - you’ll have to guess the ground defense amount, but you should get a good feel for it now that you know how the numbers work.

 

[Tom]

That’s sort of correct yes, the missile damage is reduced and then the Big Bang is applied. So yes, if you have 10k base missile damage, and it is reduced by ground defense, you could calculate it as:

10,000 damage * 0.6 = 6000 Damage [Considering a 40% ground defense]
+ 6000 damage * 1.5 [Three flashes at 50%]
= 15,000

You would deal 15,000 damage per missile using that example.

Ground Defense does not only apply to the original damage by the missile, it is not:

10,000 damage * 0.6 = 6000 Damage [Considering a 40% GD]
+ 10,000 * 1.5 [Three flashes at 50%]
= 21,000

I’m not sure if there is confusion about that? You can check the numbers in game by scouting first - you’ll have to guess the ground defense amount, but you should get a good feel for it now that you know how the numbers work.

Only a confusion because with first calculation I can’t reach a damage of 340T+.

50112 x 0,6 = 30067
30067 + 30067 x 1,5 = 75167
4 missile x 75167 = 300671 damage and it’s not enough!!!!!!!

So your Second calculation which is wrong for you is better:
50112 x 0,6 + 50112 x 1,5 = 105T
4 missile x 105T = 420T damge Weichbildes enough for the highest Finca!!!

I agree with HerrRosi: 55% is the limit of GD for 50% BB and 4 missile or like crabnutz said: 43% with 5 missiles.

My personal formula again:
Missile x (1 + 1.BB + 2.BB + 3.BB - GD)

If I’m not right then please bring me sample calculation where you can reach with 4 missiles the 340T+

 

[DSD]

Rule for every level of players:
1. Max training ground for the level
2. Max missiles in training ground
3. 4 perfect Diego
4. 4*11% bigbang (minimum)
5. +10 energy
1-5 done = 2 or 3 flashes + 5 missiles and everyone within 3 levels from you is dead (from level 35 onwards; for 53+ it's all the same above that level)

If 5. is +9 - 1 firebomb required on finca as well
If 5. is +8 or less - 1 firebomb required on buildings to get enough energy, then flash and missiles on finca

Different levels require different combo of flash/missile/firebomb.

 

[DSD]

I forgot to mention max level helipad as well is required.

 

[DSD]

I will calculate it for level 53+

Formula is like this:

1. Missile damage (50,112)
(base missile damage (12,528) x % bonus from sics) + base missile damage
OR
100% + 300% = coefficient multiplier of 4 x base missile damage

4x12,528 = 50,112

2. Add on bonus damage from bigbang

bigbang 44% + 3 flashbangs - 72% ground defence (max gd with 6 sics @ rank 5)

(44+44+44-72) = 60%

This means now missiles will have 1.6 multiplier coefficient in addition to point (1.)
OR
50,112x1.6 = 80,179 per 1 missile

3. Calculation with +10 energy and 5 missiles

5x80,179 = 400,896 damage to a max finca health 391,000

Only a confusion because with first calculation I can’t reach a damage of 340T+.

50112 x 0,6 = 30067
30067 + 30067 x 1,5 = 75167
4 missile x 75167 = 300671 damage and it’s not enough!!!!!!!

So your Second calculation which is wrong for you is better:
50112 x 0,6 + 50112 x 1,5 = 105T
4 missile x 105T = 420T damge Weichbildes enough for the highest Finca!!!

I agree with HerrRosi: 55% is the limit of GD for 50% BB and 4 missile or like crabnutz said: 43% with 5 missiles.

My personal formula again:
Missile x (1 + 1.BB + 2.BB + 3.BB - GD)

If I’m not right then please bring me sample calculation where you can reach with 4 missiles the 340T+

 

[DSD]

Another example without perfect Diegos.

Let's say you have 4 blue Diegos where 2 of them have 2 talents of 20% missile and the other 2 have each one talent for 16% and on for 20% missile:

4*30% = 120% base missile bonus from 4 blue Diegos
2*(20%+20%)= 80%
2*(16%+16%+20%+20%) = 72%

Bonus damage from sics will be:
120+80+72 = 272% or 2.72 coefficient multiplier

Now we add the Base damage of missiles from the training ground (1) and the end coefficient multiplier becomes 3.72

3.72 * 12,528 = 46,604

2. Coefficient multiplier of bigbang of 1.6 after removing the ground defence from the equation:

1.6 * 46,604 = 74,567

3. Damage to 391,000 finca with 5 missiles:

5 * 74,567 = 372,833

So finca will live