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Not sure what attack bonus is active here

Chago

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
27
In a recent attack I limit my missile attack to these high health Rocket Launchers. I know they do minimal damage to my Torchers so I focus more on piercing cannons, cannons, and nerve gas cannons. As I do my thing I hit the rocket launchers here and there until they are gone. But as I maneuver away to the rear I notice the Rocket Launcher health decreases on its own without being attacked by my squads as I continue my attack on the other side of the base.

Can anyone tell me what BOOST, Bonus, Skill Set is in effect and how can I BOOST this more?
 

Doods1985

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
153
But which BOOST in guerrilla. Only thing active is WEAPONS STORAGE Torchers III. This has Health and damage increase?
Am spitballing here , but i believe it has something to do with the (counter skill) badge , "the blue skill that looks like shield and has a heart in the middle" , characteristics says it reflect damage to the attacker .

One example why I believe it's this case :
You got ground defense sicarios in your base right ? Now reply one of the attacks on your base, and look at your sicarios when they interact with attacker troops, once your sicarios get hit, a small symbol appears
Screenshot_20181024-040815_1.jpg


Because ground defense skill has the counter skill badge included in it.
This is the same symbol appears when people attacks me with torchers , and my buildings get some damage remotely, now the question is why it effects the troops ? I thought it effects only the sicarios you apply the skill to. .
 

ELpatron50

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
108
Counter Defense boost crafted in Ammo Factory?
Reflect damage to attacker (Torchers)

Sicario Debuffs counter skill
to reflect damage to attacker.

_20181027_095509.png
 

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Doods1985

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
153
The skill in this screenshot only applies to a sicario it is given to. For torchers, it needs to be added via the guerilla factory, as already mentioned.
"guerilla building: ammo factory Torcher"
You might be right actually. But what baffles me that in guerilla building they don't state that will be reflecting damage skill applied to the troops (torchers) , so what? People found out by accident about this? Or the sicarios effect the troops in this specifyc case only? Mystery to be solved.
 

ipasher

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
69
You might be right actually. But what baffles me that in guerilla building they don't state that will be reflecting damage skill applied to the troops (torchers) , so what? People found out by accident about this? Or the sicarios effect the troops in this specifyc case only? Mystery to be solved.
come on, dude, you must be kidding. When in Guerrilla Facility you go to Ammo Factory list and scroll to 'Ammo Factory: Torchers' it clearly says 'Grants your Torchers the Counter Skill', if you click on 'i' symbol on upper left corner of a factory it pops out a screen, where you can read 'Avoids the percentage of damage taken (small sign of counter skill) +40%'. It's more than clear for most of the players ;)
 

Doods1985

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
153
come on, dude, you must be kidding. When in Guerrilla Facility you go to Ammo Factory list and scroll to 'Ammo Factory: Torchers' it clearly says 'Grants your Torchers the Counter Skill', if you click on 'i' symbol on upper left corner of a factory it pops out a screen, where you can read 'Avoids the percentage of damage taken (small sign of counter skill) +40%'. It's more than clear for most of the players ;)
I apologize, it never crossed my mind that the symbol means the counter skill, even tho we guessed earlier it's the counter skill which causes all of this, still tho what is the percentage of the reflection? ? It's not stated there, or its combined with the 40% ?

second thought of this I believe torches are really OP ! they have a very VERY high health status, add to that 25% health increase, plus avoids damage 40% , then now reflects damage to the attacker ..the fact that they run togther and destroy each other on explosion doesn't compensate those traits above! FTX shouldv put torchers not as trucks, more like an ancient chariot driven by two mythical unicorns while a Greek god spanking thunderbolts all over the base ! **** !

What's Next : make torchers explosion effects more damage, replace the deploy sound with (ALLAHU AKBAR) , and let them walk peacefully to the finca . Win!
 

His lordship

Active Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
126
You might be right actually. But what baffles me that in guerilla building they don't state that will be reflecting damage skill applied to the troops (torchers) , so what? People found out by accident about this? Or the sicarios effect the troops in this specifyc case only? Mystery to be solved.
Not "might be right"... "are right" :cool:
 

ipasher

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
69
I apologize, it never crossed my mind that the symbol means the counter skill, even tho we guessed earlier it's the counter skill which causes all of this, still tho what is the percentage of the reflection? ? It's not stated there, or its combined with the 40% ?

second thought of this I believe torches are really OP ! they have a very VERY high health status, add to that 25% health increase, plus avoids damage 40% , then now reflects damage to the attacker ..the fact that they run togther and destroy each other on explosion doesn't compensate those traits above! FTX shouldv put torchers not as trucks, more like an ancient chariot driven by two mythical unicorns while a Greek god spanking thunderbolts all over the base ! **** !

What's Next : make torchers explosion effects more damage, replace the deploy sound with (ALLAHU AKBAR) , and let them walk peacefully to the finca . Win!
You’re wrong in your opinion that they’re OP. About health points - torcher is the only unit who can survive a Piercing Cannon shot. But what we pay for exchange? Their strength is in health of each unit, but their weaknesses are their number, low amount of damage, short distance of attack and ‘high’ movement speed. Discussable strength or weakness is their explosion. Simply: you have only 2 or 3 of them per one camp. It’s not even comparable to the number of flacos. Their damage is not even close to damage of fuegos or flacos. Movement speed, distance of attack - think yourself...

It’s not about torchers who’re OP, it’s about players who have skills and experience with that type of troops. Stop blaming troops, they don’t have their own will, behind them is always a commander who gives orders. Cheers
 

Doods1985

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
153
You’re wrong in your opinion that they’re OP. About health points - torcher is the only unit who can survive a Piercing Cannon shot. But what we pay for exchange? Their strength is in health of each unit, but their weaknesses are their number, low amount of damage, short distance of attack and ‘high’ movement speed. Discussable strength or weakness is their explosion. Simply: you have only 2 or 3 of them per one camp. It’s not even comparable to the number of flacos. Their damage is not even close to damage of fuegos or flacos. Movement speed, distance of attack - think yourself...

It’s not about torchers who’re OP, it’s about players who have skills and experience with that type of troops. Stop blaming troops, they don’t have their own will, behind them is always a commander who gives orders. Cheers
Although "some" of your points takes back the differences between thier massive health and other weak traits they have , still the big picture of torchers attacks lie under (an invincible unit) , Now don't take that literally, just comparing this unit with others
Flacos are only considerable of their sheer amounts, low damage, low health, but compensated with about 160 units per attack (we are talking about high levels, you know why)

Gurdos , who was considered the (tank) of the game once, and occasionally still, have a maximum of 14300 health. A single PC hit could kill one gurdo ,if not he's critically low

Rest of the units are self explanatory, And so on and so forth

Now, what's wrong with torchers ? PC and canons are worst enemy for them, but upgrades takes too long, too much resources, and give slight enhancement of terms of DAMAGE (regarding considerable amount of damage that can actually hurt a torcher), barely visible throughout mid-to-high upgrades, it's only for defensive sicarios and skill slots which can either lift that up or protect it more, all other units are considerably having good/bad traits ratio, but a torchers ?? Let's say at level 10 not 11, combined with only guerilla boost (not ammo factory) , you are talking about 1,800,000 walking health trucks, you imagine what can take that amount of health?

Yes, good layout and good strategy should suffice, but you know what? In this case it doesn't, one million health packs are roaming around finca all they have to do is destroy as many buildings as possible and when they are at low health just click on finca and let them explode the rest of what's left of health. I have countless replies where its either a failed no deploy attack so they send torchers to finish up , takes less than 10 seconds, or just click click click missiles FB clear some obstacles then let them roam. No need even to redirect them anywhere, or even any strategic plan needed, most often there is no "leader" effect after deployment, low damage rate is too bad? Correct , but let that piercing canon with FIVE THOUSAND damage per second which is 20,000 damage per shot every 4 full seconds do it's best! Let alone that ammo factory give damage reflection now ! **** .

Before I used to see 2-3 out of 10 attacks with gurdos mixed with other troops , occasioanly even only gurdos buffed up clearing the map, Now? Everyone goes for torchers , people who use gurdos now they just use it because wasted much money or resources for upgrading gurdos and their sicarios. If it's balanced you would still see gurdos in action like before?

Check your map, open players bases, how many have guerilla buildings of torchers and compare for what other have of different troops??

Only thing can kill torchers is sicarios skills, but where I should push these now? Between no deploy attacks I need forta and mugels , damage I need butchers, health I need Pachos , I have 92% missile attack protection, 98% FB protection, and an addition of 60% ground defense attack , and still I get people defeat my finca with only TWO FB . You can blame my layout and my strategy but that's not the point , the point is I want to protect my self from no deploy but that means no room for other improvements . No deploy is the cancer of this game.

PS : high movement speed isn't a weakness , it's an advantage !

Their damage is almost as good as fuegos (Max level fuego is 1900~ , torchers are 1400 , adding guerilla boost makes that 1750 , also attack speed is the exactly same as fuegos (which is the highest between all troops) .

So ?
 

ipasher

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
69
Although "some" of your points takes back the differences between thier massive health and other weak traits they have , still the big picture of torchers attacks lie under (an invincible unit) , Now don't take that literally, just comparing this unit with others
Flacos are only considerable of their sheer amounts, low damage, low health, but compensated with about 160 units per attack (we are talking about high levels, you know why)

Gurdos , who was considered the (tank) of the game once, and occasionally still, have a maximum of 14300 health. A single PC hit could kill one gurdo ,if not he's critically low

Rest of the units are self explanatory, And so on and so forth

Now, what's wrong with torchers ? PC and canons are worst enemy for them, but upgrades takes too long, too much resources, and give slight enhancement of terms of DAMAGE (regarding considerable amount of damage that can actually hurt a torcher), barely visible throughout mid-to-high upgrades, it's only for defensive sicarios and skill slots which can either lift that up or protect it more, all other units are considerably having good/bad traits ratio, but a torchers ?? Let's say at level 10 not 11, combined with only guerilla boost (not ammo factory) , you are talking about 1,800,000 walking health trucks, you imagine what can take that amount of health?

Yes, good layout and good strategy should suffice, but you know what? In this case it doesn't, one million health packs are roaming around finca all they have to do is destroy as many buildings as possible and when they are at low health just click on finca and let them explode the rest of what's left of health. I have countless replies where its either a failed no deploy attack so they send torchers to finish up , takes less than 10 seconds, or just click click click missiles FB clear some obstacles then let them roam. No need even to redirect them anywhere, or even any strategic plan needed, most often there is no "leader" effect after deployment, low damage rate is too bad? Correct , but let that piercing canon with FIVE THOUSAND damage per second which is 20,000 damage per shot every 4 full seconds do it's best! Let alone that ammo factory give damage reflection now ! **** .

Before I used to see 2-3 out of 10 attacks with gurdos mixed with other troops , occasioanly even only gurdos buffed up clearing the map, Now? Everyone goes for torchers , people who use gurdos now they just use it because wasted much money or resources for upgrading gurdos and their sicarios. If it's balanced you would still see gurdos in action like before?

Check your map, open players bases, how many have guerilla buildings of torchers and compare for what other have of different troops??

Only thing can kill torchers is sicarios skills, but where I should push these now? Between no deploy attacks I need forta and mugels , damage I need butchers, health I need Pachos , I have 92% missile attack protection, 98% FB protection, and an addition of 60% ground defense attack , and still I get people defeat my finca with only TWO FB . You can blame my layout and my strategy but that's not the point , the point is I want to protect my self from no deploy but that means no room for other improvements . No deploy is the cancer of this game.

PS : high movement speed isn't a weakness , it's an advantage !

Their damage is almost as good as fuegos (Max level fuego is 1900~ , torchers are 1400 , adding guerilla boost makes that 1750 , also attack speed is the exactly same as fuegos (which is the highest between all troops) .

So ?
WTF was that? 1.8kk? How? Take a look at maxed up torcher. 156 250 HP +10%. How come 1.8kk? Maybe if you count them all then that’s 2kk, but you can’t count like that ;) Same as you can’t count all damage your defense buildings can inflict ;) That’s not math science, it’s only basic arithmetics.

Now take a look at average max lvl PC. Not maxed, but average (with balanced sicarios). It’s 9 800 + bonus 26 460 = 36 260 total per one shot per one weapon once in 4 seconds. It takes 5 shots to destroy 1 torcher, if other torchers close by only 4. And PC’s are not alone, other weapons are somewhere there as well. BTW what gordo surviving a PC shot like that are you talking about? And where did you find a 5k per second PC?

Now about torcher damage. Let’s calculate it clearly at max lvl squad camps w/o guerilla buildings and cartel/base/statue bonuses:
Flacos: 490 x 43 = 21 070 per second
Fuegos: 1960 x 10 = 19 600 per second
Torchers: 1400 x 3 = 4 200 per second
How can these troops be compared by damage? Not even talking about 2 cartel upgrades for both f guys and 1 for torchers. Not even taking into account ammo factories for damage for f guys and one we get for torchers.

I agree that most of end game players use torchers. A pair percents use flacos and another pair responsible for cartel base demolition use fuegos. The reason is not torchers being OP. There are alternatives, like fuegos and flacos (and even gordo+RPG or dunno_how_other_trucks_are_called+medic) and those alternatives are also effective with some practice but other troops are dying during battle and need a recharge which is time spent without playing. Time waiting for troops recharge is not funny at all. I’m not even touching economic aspects of troops death.

About your base demolition with pew-pew, you already answered your question. Nothing to discuss.

About your PS - I put ‘high’ in inverted commas ‘cause torcher movement speed is not high. Deploy 4 squads on 1 line with low, average and high movement speed. And deploy torchers at the same time - you’ll see the difference. Torcher movement speed is anything but not high.
 

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ipasher

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
69
Simple solution for no-deploy attacks - make finca not to suffer damage from abilities. But it’s too obvious :) Better make players spend some gold for anti-missile & anti-fire_bomb talents or sicario traits ;)
 
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